tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post193854802338172065..comments2024-03-21T14:59:20.729-04:00Comments on NT Blog: Joseph of Arimathea and Talpiyot Tomb B, by Richard BauckhamMark Goodacrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05115370166754797529noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-80679326768672036192012-04-13T19:04:28.466-04:002012-04-13T19:04:28.466-04:00Pardon me, if this is a stupid question, but does ...Pardon me, if this is a stupid question, but does this argument deal only with the literary character of JoM in <i>Mark</i>, or is there an argument that such a man actually existed?Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-32331346598427138362012-04-13T18:14:54.376-04:002012-04-13T18:14:54.376-04:00I'm not "Richard," but the discovery...I'm not "Richard," but the discovery of the previously crucified skeleton of a male Jew in 1968 is well-attested and universally accepted. Links to the story of the discovery (the skeleton was found in an ossuary) can be found very easily with an internet search. The man's name was written on the box and was "Johanan," if memory serves. Also, a Roman crucifixion nail was still driven into one of his arm bones. Interestingly, this information about Johanan's skeleton was left out of early editions of J.D. Crossan's "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography," but added to later printings as a footnote.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17790677827794170014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-75805733044385801222012-04-13T18:10:41.994-04:002012-04-13T18:10:41.994-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17790677827794170014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-63298002363973999832012-04-13T17:51:19.831-04:002012-04-13T17:51:19.831-04:00Richard,
With regard to the 'taking down'...Richard, <br /><br />With regard to the 'taking down' of a crucified man, was he tied to the cross or nailed? I find it difficult to believe that a man nailed could be 'taken down'as such.geoffhudson.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724916983698195467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-35450772324598302012-04-13T17:07:43.747-04:002012-04-13T17:07:43.747-04:00I noticed yet another fatal gap in logic regarding...I noticed yet another fatal gap in logic regarding the theories behind the so-called "cluster" of presumptive "Christian" tombs at Talpiot. If Jesus of Nazareth's bones are in Tomb A and those in charge of interring the occupants of Tomb A and B knew this, why would they carve ANYTHING about a resurrection on an ossuary? To say nothing of a hope in a resurrection brought about by the dead guy's bones in the tomb next door?Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17790677827794170014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-79129477843135461542012-04-13T16:32:33.819-04:002012-04-13T16:32:33.819-04:00No, James, you are retreating from what is said in...No, James, you are retreating from what is said in the film and what you and Simcha say very clearly in the book: pp. 126-127, where you argue that the name Arimathea refers to the place where the Talpiyot tomb is located. The other grounds you state in this comment are not independent evidence for connecting this tomb with Joseph of Arimathea. They are just deductions from your other hypotheses.<br /><br />Geoff -<br />(1) the skeleton of one crucified man has been found, and he was taken down.<br />(2) the body was laid on a shelf in the tomb, as bodies usually were. This is clearly what Mark means.<br />(3) Of course Joseph didn't make the tomb himself. He had it made.Richard Bauckhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13727799658796183772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-28015988866631992322012-04-13T16:03:49.669-04:002012-04-13T16:03:49.669-04:00Talpiot tomb A cannot be reliably identified with ...Talpiot tomb A <i>cannot</i> be reliably identified with a cluster of names associated with Jesus of Nazareth. For example, the Mary ossuary reads "Mariame kai Mara" or "Mariam he [a relative pronoun] kai Mara," not "Mariamene." Further Mary of Magdala is only identified as Mariamene in the Acts of Phillip at the literary level (paralleled with the portrayals of Mary in works like the Gospel of Mary or the Manichean Psalms) by Bovon, not at the historical level (http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?articleId=656). I was sad to see the new documentary perpetuate the false portrayal of Bovon's argument.<br /><br />Plus there is also the questionable nature of the James ossuary along with its questionable connection to the Talpiot Tombs. The recent trial only decided if Obed Golan was a forger, not the authenticity of the ossuary.<br /><br />The only evidence presented in the documentary (at least that I can remember) of it being an estate is that there are two tombs set off from other known tombs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17033142025637646832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-30940733102221113642012-04-13T15:37:44.007-04:002012-04-13T15:37:44.007-04:00Richard,
I think the identification of Joseph of A...Richard,<br />I think the identification of Joseph of Arimathea with the Talpiot tomb "estate" rests on different grounds, the presumptions of which you would question:<br /><br />1. It is Joseph who in all of our sources has charge of the burial of Jesus. The hasty and temporary burial in a tomb that just happened to be near the place of crucifixion (John 19) would have been followed by a permanent burial--presumably on his own land or in a tomb he provided.<br /><br />2. Since Talpiot tomb A can be reliably identified with a cluster of names associated with Jesus of Nazareth and his family, and the probabilities of this cluster show it is unlikely to be random, the estate with these three tombs is likely his.<br /><br />3. Talpiot tomb B, indeed, shows evidence of faith in Jesus' resurrection with the appropriation of a Jonah image and an inscription about heavenly exaltation--both based in language and thought on Jonah 2:2-7.James D. Taborhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18137109228365359971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-17991483319082112242012-04-13T15:16:39.259-04:002012-04-13T15:16:39.259-04:001. So how could Joseph have taken 'down' t...1. So how could Joseph have taken 'down' the body (Mt.15.46) without ripping it off the nails which would have been well hammered in? <br /><br />2.Some disciples saw where he was 'laid' (Mk.15.47) which to me does not speak of a tomb burial but an earth grave.<br /><br />3.What was a rich man doing cutting out a tomb for himself? (Mt.27.60) It doesn't make sense.geoffhudson.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724916983698195467noreply@blogger.com