tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post4673074499625204370..comments2024-03-21T14:59:20.729-04:00Comments on NT Blog: PhD: UK or USA?Mark Goodacrehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05115370166754797529noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-35184224206561491032016-03-08T17:27:18.990-05:002016-03-08T17:27:18.990-05:00Yeah Theology/Religion Ph.D programs in the US are...Yeah Theology/Religion Ph.D programs in the US are different than most other disciplines. Most disciplines (Phil, soc, polisci, many hard sciences) you can go straight to doctoral studies after completion of a bachelors degree and earn a masters en route. In theology/religion that is very rare. Ph.D programs in Theology/religion are looking for students with at least a MA/Mts. Some even have a Mdiv and Th.M. Then after that it is 5 years of study. This is why many Th.M graduates opt for UK Ph.Ds. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03511393868036651946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-81381823834128881072015-07-26T18:06:15.359-04:002015-07-26T18:06:15.359-04:00Actually, many Ph.D. programs, at least in neurosc...Actually, many Ph.D. programs, at least in neuroscience, do offer entry without a master's and allow you to earn one along the way (or skip it). The total duration of study after earning a bachelor's therefore is approximately 5 years to earn a doctorate.KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03514473655585597695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-76945812016672852482015-07-08T09:40:53.086-04:002015-07-08T09:40:53.086-04:00Actually, the U.S. Does not combine Masters and Ph...Actually, the U.S. Does not combine Masters and PhD. A U.S? masters is 2 years and a U.S. PhD is 5 years. 3 years of the PhD in the U.S. Is spent in classrooms taking classes just as if you were an Undergrad or MS student. The final 2 years is spent on actual research and the constructing of your Thesis.CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03357936029596043299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-88984896585299305222015-07-07T23:30:09.055-04:002015-07-07T23:30:09.055-04:00The U.S. 5-year Ph.D. is usually a dual program th...The U.S. 5-year Ph.D. is usually a dual program that combines the doctoral and master's degrees, though. So isn't that about the same length of time as pursuing a separate masters and doctorate in the U.K.?KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03514473655585597695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-67287709694061676052015-02-23T06:33:47.969-05:002015-02-23T06:33:47.969-05:00If I may add two other things that are considerabl...If I may add two other things that are considerably different between UK and US PHDs. I am an American with a MSc and PhD from Oxford. I had a few other Post-Graduate degrees from US unis before Oxford. a) I think that in the U.S. you are taught WHAT to think, even at the PG level. Whereas, my experience in the UK was that I was being challenged in HOW to think and reason. I would argue that even for those American schools that are considered to embody excellence, logic and reason is a very small part of pedagogy. In this regard I believe the UK system puts out people who are more confident to think for themselves and find their own reason through any given problem. I also think this prepares one for argument and debate, both in public and in one's scholarship. In the US system we are often taught to "report" in place of to argue.<br /><br />b) I have heard nothing but horror stories from American friends about one's committee not getting along and the PhD student becoming a pawn in this mess of egos. I also heard bad outcomes in one-on-one supervision, but I think it is less likely. I also don't see the point in those who worked with you on your research to be the one's examining you? On what exactly then are they examining you? Your ability to do as told? In this regard, I believe internal and external examiners who have not worked with you may provide more objective judgment of the research and dissertation.<br /><br />Lastly for the UK trained PhD seeking an academic post in the US, I have been warned that European PhD's are generally assumed weaker because the time for research (or field work in the social sciences) is often far less than for the 5-10 year PhD in the States. One could argue that it is absurd to take so long on a PhD, but from an American perspective time is equivalent to greater depth.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01536291372685084079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-57840304446409642712014-11-17T14:43:37.784-05:002014-11-17T14:43:37.784-05:00If you are an independent self-starter with a good...If you are an independent self-starter with a good idea of what you want to do your PhD thesis on, then the UK is heads above the US. If you need more guidance and like the idea of taking courses for 2-3 years before embarking upon your PhD research then the US would be more suited to you. American PhD's are called 'Academicians', while UK Phd's are considered 'True Scholars". If your interests are in learning to become a true scholar then the UK is most definitely the way to go. If you would like to more of an academic than a scholar, the US is the way to go.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910972967082156078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-41306151060851545522014-05-27T00:37:06.204-04:002014-05-27T00:37:06.204-04:00Great Blog. I found much useful information. To an...Great Blog. I found much useful information. To answer the last question regarding grading in the US- it really depends. In my program we are solely graded on a final paper<br /><br />Katerinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06980996883002796851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-64431002735181848792014-05-24T23:56:06.439-04:002014-05-24T23:56:06.439-04:00Are you saying that a US PhD has more on breadth w...Are you saying that a US PhD has more on breadth whilst the UK/EU PhD is more on depth? I did a master's by coursework in Britain and it seems like they give a freer hand to students to choose the topics to engage in for essays. Would you think that in the US, they expect students at end of the coursework level to "know everything" about the subject? <br /><br />Is it true that for a US unit/module, there are more requirements marked compared to the UK, where a final mark is dependent on only 1-2 requirements (each having at least 40%)? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-31620718583826691372012-08-07T09:02:07.517-04:002012-08-07T09:02:07.517-04:00Well, many of the things I say about PhDs in the a...Well, many of the things I say about PhDs in the area of Theology and Religion, which I know best, would also be relevant to other areas in the humanities. That would be my guess.Mark Goodacrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05115370166754797529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-27126426313144495272012-08-07T08:39:09.703-04:002012-08-07T08:39:09.703-04:00Thank you so much for this brilliant post, but I&#...Thank you so much for this brilliant post, but I'lld like to know whether the disparities highlighted herein only apply to Theology programs in the two countries or to most other PhD programs as well. Thanks again.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16859915806603348507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-74640890710810521092008-07-03T02:22:00.000-04:002008-07-03T02:22:00.000-04:00I did my PHD from Uk, and I guess there is not a b...I did my PHD from Uk, and I guess there is not a big difference between a Us PhD or a UK Phd. Moreover I take lot of help from this website, while working on my project, <BR/><A HREF="http://www.dissertation-help.co.uk/phd_dissertations.htm" REL="nofollow">phd dissertation help</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-40224197430401761212007-04-26T17:23:00.000-04:002007-04-26T17:23:00.000-04:00Two useful data: acc. to the Chronicle of Higher E...Two useful data: acc. to the Chronicle of Higher Education (USA), the average age of the recipient of a PhD in humanities is 34, and the average age of a recipient of a PhD in religious/theological studies (incl. biblical studies) is 37.<BR/><BR/>This is because many students pursue the latter PhD after pastoring or some other religious work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-19621987919851236772007-04-26T11:28:00.000-04:002007-04-26T11:28:00.000-04:00JC, one clarifcation on my part... The 'seminars' ...JC, one clarifcation on my part... The 'seminars' in the UK are not associated with course work as the term 'seminar' in the US would be. Seminars here are a weekly opportunity in a research area to hear a paper from an external guest or someone at the school. Typically, each research area (OT, NT, etc.) will have their own weekly seminar, and the expectation is that you will attend all the way through your studies to discuss current topics and interact with others in your field.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-10794258261477258692007-04-26T11:11:00.000-04:002007-04-26T11:11:00.000-04:00I'm currently doing doctoral studies in Argentina....I'm currently doing doctoral studies in Argentina. As someone who has studied in the UK and the USA previously, it seems the 'system' here is a bit of a mismatch between US and UK expectations. The programme is advertised as three years in length comparable to the UK, but jams in language studies and initial courses/ field exams that compare more to the US system. It feels like it's still trying to work out what kind of programme it wants to be. That said, I can't bring myself to tell you all how low the fees are.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08099527652087167473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-90031352964569024012007-04-26T08:43:00.000-04:002007-04-26T08:43:00.000-04:00Thank you Dr. Mark. This is neat road map for thos...Thank you Dr. Mark. This is neat road map for those of us who are ready for graduate study. I have another concern too. Which particular university have strong program (Pauline? Synoptic? Etc...)? Is there any one with comments? <BR/><BR/>ZerihunZerihunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01811819358755291001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-6551329418987119052007-04-26T06:23:00.000-04:002007-04-26T06:23:00.000-04:00As per the comment from 'anonymous' above, I sympa...As per the comment from 'anonymous' above, I sympathize with your situation. It is sad that sometimes hiring committees are only looking for university prestige (like Oxbridge). But, I think many US seminaries and universities are also looking for recs from respected people - so, yes, a rec from Morna Hooker (Cambridge) is good, but so is one from Andrew Lincoln at Gloucestershire or Howard Marshall at Aberdeen. IMHO I think a good rec goes a long way.Nijay K. Guptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13995919231679173170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-48645497873701166742007-04-26T00:53:00.000-04:002007-04-26T00:53:00.000-04:00I began my Ph.D. in the U.S. and my experience in ...I began my Ph.D. in the U.S. and my experience in course work was valuable for helping me begin learning serious graduate research skills, as well as getting my French and German ready for research. I switched to a British university based upon who my superivsor would be when my U.S. advisor left the U.S. school. I'm glad that I did not have to go through comprehensive exams and my expenses were much much smaller than at the U.S. school. However, as an American seeking employment in the U.S., I have run into the problem that my school, the University of Bristol, is virtually unknown to many people over here. The chair of a search committee at a major research university said she'd never heard of the University of Bristol. So while my experinece of getting a U.K. Ph.D. was very positive, my experience trying to market it in the U.S. has not been. I'm guessing as an American that if one wants a marketable U.K. Ph.D., it had best be from Oxford or Cambridge, places everyone has heard of. This is solely a matter of name recognition in my view. The fact that people over here in the U.S. don't know about Bristol or other U.K. universities potentially says nothing about their quality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-7246409099670684762007-04-25T19:25:00.000-04:002007-04-25T19:25:00.000-04:00Ben,In the states, some programs do require a week...Ben,<BR/>In the states, some programs do require a weekly seminars throughout the semester. At Brite Divinity School, where I study, we are required to take two methodological seminars, one on NT and the other Hebrew Bible. The remainder of our course work may be special topic seminars, lecture classes with Master's students (in which PhD students are expected to contribute and lead a class), and independent studies with a particular faculty member. Also, our divinity school in associated with a major university, so we are able to participate in many university opportunities. <BR/>The challenge of working while doing the PhD is another matter. For the past year, we have been trying to make it with only my wife working. We have two small children and our budget is not working. So, i will be looking for employment over the summer break.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-34329437540529234982007-04-25T18:19:00.000-04:002007-04-25T18:19:00.000-04:00What's up with all us Durham people writing about ...What's up with all us Durham people writing about this? But I thought I'd throw in my two cents that I didn't think about until I got here. <BR/><BR/>With regard to the breadth that you receive through course work in the states, you also receive more here in the UK than I expected and than you note. One is basically expected (though not required) to sit in on modules here in Durham, though no writing is done. At the same time, you have the weekly NT, OT, etc. seminars (which, to my understanding, US schools don't have) that provide an avenue of discussion around a broad range of topics throughout your time of study. So there are opportunites to gain more breadth here if you avail yourself of them. <BR/><BR/>While these two options--modules and seminars--do provide more breadth than I expected, I think ultimately one studying in the UK has to take those extra steps personally to broaden their expertise, as well as fit in conferences and publications. One other thing about breadth: the international experience definitely gives you some both academically and personally.<BR/><BR/>Also, Colin from discussions here in Durham (UK) <A HREF="http://dunelm.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/phd-acceptance-rates/" REL="nofollow">acceptance rates</A> here are much higher than in the US for a top school. I believe roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of applicants were given acceptance here last year, though some were only <A HREF="http://dunelm.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/acceptance-ma-vs-phd/" REL="nofollow">offered the MA program</A> first. Plus the <A HREF="http://dunelm.wordpress.com/2007/04/01/uk-phd-program-tuition-fees/" REL="nofollow">range of fees at different schools in the UK</A> is quite broad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-48218429722933580932007-04-25T18:05:00.000-04:002007-04-25T18:05:00.000-04:00You contrast British and American Ph.D. students w...You contrast British and American Ph.D. students with respect to publications very differently than I would. My impression has always been quite the opposite--good Ph.D. students at British institutions are more likely to have a couple of journal articles published prior to completing the degree than American students. That was certainly true in my experience at St. Andrews. Nearly everyone working on a Ph.D. in NT had at least one journal article published before the viva. Many students working in OT and theology were also publishing in good journals. That was not the case at Fuller where I did a Th.M. prior to St. Andrews, nor was that the experience of friends who completed their Ph.D.s at good American universities, including Duke. In those contexts Ph.D. students sometimes published, but it was not the norm. <BR/><BR/>I have found that many Ph.D. students in American institutions (as well as relatively recent Ph.D.s) don't consider themselves scholars who should publish. The reason is that American programs tend to socialize students to continue a student/teacher relationship in which they are students study and the teacher is the scholar who publishes. It often takes several years of teaching before someone begins to break out of this way of thinking. Moreover, many associate publishing with tenure. As a result, they don't think publishing is vital until a few years after completing the degree and begin thinking about their tenure and promotion applications. In contrast, at St. Andrews we were treated as junior colleagues engaged in research from day one; publishing is just part of what a scholar does and so we did it. But perhaps St. Andrews was atypical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-55668814809198243952007-04-25T17:51:00.000-04:002007-04-25T17:51:00.000-04:00As a current USA doctoral student, I agree that th...As a current USA doctoral student, I agree that the value of the coursework element. Over the past two years, I have been able to focus research and writing on topics that interest me, point me toward my dissertation topic, and have the potential for conference presentation and publication. The PhD seminars have been a helpful arena to learn from one another and to gain experience presenting a paper or research data to a group of peers.<BR/>That said, I do, at times, find that the required readings for a given seminar meeting do not correspond to my research area and it becomes easy to dismiss. Nevertheless, meeting with and learning from fellow doctoral students has been a valuable experience for me.<BR/>J.C. Baker<BR/>www.jcbaker.infoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-56356501320257798802007-04-25T17:25:00.000-04:002007-04-25T17:25:00.000-04:00Very interesting post, Mark. I am a PHD student a...Very interesting post, Mark. I am a PHD student at Durham (UK) and I would agree that the US academic work is appealing. However, a major factor is in what arena one is interested in working. If it is in a university, then the USA university-based system is ideal for doctoral work. If it is a seminary, from my knowledge, UK PhDs don't seem to be at a disadvantage. Beside, those of us with 2 Masters (MDIV+ThM = 4 years) feel adequately prepared for the research project. I agree with jbyron (hi John) that UK students need to be very intention about publications and paper presentations.<BR/>In the end, as I have been told, getting a job is as much about networking as about your CV. <BR/><BR/>For those of you that are interested, I have a lengthy essay on my blog about preparing for a PHD in NT, whether US or UK. See <BR/>http://nijaygupta.wordpress.com/phd-advice/Nijay K. Guptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13995919231679173170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-80219800512678067162007-04-25T14:57:00.000-04:002007-04-25T14:57:00.000-04:00This was a great post Mark, very helpful. The que...This was a great post Mark, very helpful. The question of time-to-degree is particularly important for students like me who are moving into the academic world after time in other vocations earlier on in life. For instance I'm already 29 and will be 30 before beginning a PhD anywhere. In the process of researching various potential schools I've also found that gaining admittance into a strong school is far more difficult in the states. Schools like Duke and Notre Dame (I'm hoping to apply to both) take only a very small fraction of their applicants. Though British schools of comparable caliber are also competitive, the competition does not seem to be quite so unforgiving. This may be an inaccurate assessment, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong here.Colin Toffelmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13857934895856384717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-29777703265193183912007-04-25T14:42:00.000-04:002007-04-25T14:42:00.000-04:00Can I just add a further complexity, the New Zeala...Can I just add a further complexity, the New Zealand system is similar to the British (though usually candidates are supervised by a small team 2-4 people either a lead supervisor and advisors or co-supervisors). The other difference is cost, since overseas PhD students pay the subsidised local fees, and since living costs are low this is a great deal. <BR/><BR/>PS the two NZ Universities that teach Theology both got in the top 100, and Auckland in the top 50 there is also Tyndale Carey Graduate School which combines researchers from the two institutions.Tim Bulkeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07289349880110581469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759844.post-63130480715815537932007-04-25T08:44:00.000-04:002007-04-25T08:44:00.000-04:00As an American who completed a Ph.D. at the Univer...As an American who completed a Ph.D. at the University of Durham I believe your contrast between the two systems is quite accurate. One other aspect that has its positive and negatives is that the UK system allows a self-starting student to begin research and move ahead quickly. The problem, however, is that some students are not prepared for that stage and, depending upon the level of supervision they receive, can waste valuable time. I think the American system has a slight advantage here. I also wish that the UK system had something similar to the comprehensive exam requirements in the USA. Such a program helps to serve as a valuable gate keeper to the dissertation stage. For me, the UK system worked brilliantly. I was also careful to prepare for conferences and publication while writing the thesis which made more marketable.Byronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853335292109719929noreply@blogger.com